Home High Security and Challenge Locks (1265) Whipped by Steve (Fair, or not?)

(1265) Whipped by Steve (Fair, or not?)


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  1. Valid under the original rules, but the rules need to change. If it can’t be put to general use (as in this one that’s obviously too fragile) I don’t believe it should be considered valid.

  2. Steve’s challenge lock was unfair. You can’t have people replicating the deep cuts next to a high one that are impossible for you to pick, just to win. Now if the lock manufacturers start incorporating a little educational design from watching your videos than that’s fair to make locks more pick withstandable.

  3. Yes, it is fair. It shows that conventional cylinders can defeat conventional picks, if you exploit two pins. And make a stronger key. There should be a way to improve on this and make better cylinders.

  4. I guess it was a valid change lock, but what’s the use? A key like that would have to be made out of titanium to last more than a week of normal use. This kind of extreme bidding does not help locksmiths or lock manufacturers to make improvements. We all know a high pin behind a low one is a bitch to pick. In theroy, pin 2 may not have bound till pin 1 was set. I agree with others the on the change of rules.

  5. I was thinking raking but that wouldn’t work either. I wonder if that new Kronos pick could even open this ? Lock manufacturers may be able to get away with bitting like this if they made the keys out of the same material as the keys for Bowley locks. That thing looks like it should snap off but it is very tough.

  6. Many times I have heard you say all that was required was a working key. I don’t believe the pin will touch the key in that chamber, I would bet it is riding on the warding. I also agree this may work out to be a cheap way to win, so change the rules and apply them. Rules change all the time. Who is going to complain that you made it harder to get FREE stuff? If you want it, earn it!

  7. I don’t think this lock was fair. I suggest that challenge lock comply to MACS guildlines for that particular lock and also have a working key. Also the lock should be able to be used by a locksmith in the field. Just my thoughts on creating a fair playing field for us all.

  8. Thats cheating . . . ..its supposed to be either pickable or unpickable, not cheating to make it unpickable with a outta bounds(outside the guidelines), foul ball key !!

  9. Prior to this video, the only “rule” I have heard you say, on numerous occasions, is; “it must have a working key to be a valid challenge lock”. Steve had that part covered. Yes, I agree rules suck but, without some definitive guidelines to follow, who is to say or know what is fair or not?
    The idea of trying to design a pick for that lock has merit. Someone may very well be working on a key that can be cut that low without snapping.

  10. Not fair. The concept as I understand it is to design one thst is tough to pick, not physically impossible.

  11. Not Fair… I would have tried to drill it out or break out the acetylene torch?

  12. Hi Bill
    Next time, check the key first, and if you think it’s not fair, then don’t waist your time and ours. Keep doing your good job.

  13. Not in keeping with the hobby and the fairness that is implied. Sad if you have to make rules to cover every attempt at getting around the rules. The focus soon becomes about the rules and not about how locks work.
    Just my $.02.
    Keep up the good work Bill…..

  14. I agree Bill. This was not fair. I had thought about making a lock like this to send you but we all know it is just not possible to pick. Just out of curiosity though, I wonder if there is any way to design a pick to combat this particular type of bitting.

  15. He got you but that’s like,pissin in the wind, your gonna get wet. I would refuse any locks that like that.. they wouldn’t last long in normal use. We all know that key could break in use after a short time. That is not considered a valid challenge lock !! I wouldn’t accept any lock like that anymore

  16. For what it is worth, I agree, as first of “type” it’s fair. However, it is/was an exploit that should not continue as it would stop in ovation as expressed in the video. Kind of, okay you got me, what next?

  17. All is fair in love and war… the jury is out though on the Paclock or not. You need to put in a rule of having a valid factory pin length. Dunno, it's your challenge but I'm siding on unfair.😐✌

  18. It was definitely a whipped by lock moment! And as you stated, lock vendors should take note, that insanely deep cut is a good way around hobby/basic criminals. However, now that someone has exploited this technique, i think it can be taken off the table, and no one else can use it in their locks moving forward.

    Great lock! and i didnt see that coming!

  19. Yes, this defeated you. From here out, no more of this style as we know its a jenga. However, to not gut it because it beat you with trickery, gutted me a viewer.

  20. Yeh, Bill I've seen you're work.this kind of bends the rules.i don't think you would find a key with that biting in a normal lock. Just saying

  21. I think that if the person who made the lock can pick it, then it’s a valid challenge lock. Locks physically impossible to pick aren’t valid challenges. That would be in the spirit of the locksport game

  22. Personally i don't think that was fair. As being able to pick it. But it is a good anti pick feature. As for the longevity of the key. A cut that low would weaken the key considerably.

  23. I think someone will develop a pick with a movable element at the end, which you can place under a selected pin and move more or less vertically up. It’s an arms race.

  24. I would agree whipped by and I would congratulate for thinking out of the box but I would say you need to make a rule that it has to be pickable with current tools available or that it meets standards for cut depth just my opinions that’s all

  25. Sorry bill! I completely agree it wasn’t fair, but it’s so hard to find American locks in the uk. I had to do something 🤷🏽‍♂️☺️

  26. BB called it an unpickable 2-pin lock! Pray that Masterlock does not start with that to save costs.

    Could Zipping ever work here, it being random vibrations?

  27. You've always said that if the key works, it's a valid challenge lock, so I guess that makes it valid, however I don't think it's unfair to set rules from this moment forward. Its your channel and you can make whatever rules you like. Maybe "You can go one cut under standard but more than one is not valid". You'd never see this bitting in a competition…ever.

  28. We disagree Bill…. but that's no bad thing.

    Yes, it was an impossibility for you to pick it… but that's how advancements in any industry occur… Necessity is the mother of all invention etc… it's the arms race…

    Steve invented an impossible lock to pick… with the tools you have available to you…. so to me that says, new methods of picking need to be invented… New tools need to be thought about

    Is the Bowley lock a bad idea because it can't be picked with normal and standard tools? Did you and others try to invent new tools to help move things forward with that lock?

    If it's valid there, why isn't innovation and thoughts about, How?, Why? and What if? in this case?

    I think Steve did an excellent job but….. I personally have no idea how to pick it myself…. With that said I am useless… and I am sure there are some amazingly brilliant people out there, much better than me… who will have that innovation…. I sure hope so…

    Finally… I'd have loved to have seen the pins inside Bill… But I get why you didn't choose to do it this time.

  29. I think he should have showed you the key up front and let you decide if you wanted to try to beat it. Otherwise, I'm voting "not fair".

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